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Paintrain

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 01:28:31 pm


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Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 248
Location: Lexington ky

rw175

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 02:11:40 pm


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Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 106
Location:

That would be cool to have intrastate service. I don't think there has been any since USAir yanked it back in the 90's.

Fly RW

Paintrain

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 02:15:27 pm


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Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 248
Location: Lexington ky

actually ata had service for a few months a few years a go

ATAIndy

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 03:37:11 pm

ATAIndy
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Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 728
Location: West Lafayette, IN

It would be great to see Big Sky serve the routes, but I just don't see how they could be profitable.

Why do my favorite airlines end up going defunct??

http://web01.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=16657
http://myaviation.net/search/search.php?uid=8779
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ataindy/

Indy

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 05:18:21 pm

Indy
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Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 2316
Location: Indianapolis, IN

There was a grant offered for EVV-IND-SBN and nobody took it. I don't know if it is still open or not. NW should grab it and put a Saab on the route. What isn't o/d traffic they can use to complete service to other destinations that NW serves from here.

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Paintrain

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 05:28:03 pm


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Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 248
Location: Lexington ky

yup that would be good if NW took over maybe add fwa and gyy to the list to

Indy

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 08:08:05 pm

Indy
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Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 2316
Location: Indianapolis, IN

The problem with GYY and FWA in my opinion is they are on major interstates with easy access to IND. Same isn't true for SBN and EVV. Those are both longer drives. If everything isn't perfect SBN to IND can be even longer than 3hrs 16min.

EVV to IND is 3hrs 13min.
SBN to IND is 3hrs 16min.

GYY to IND is 2hrs 31min.
FWA to IND is 2hrs 10min.

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Kirok

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 04:26:31 pm

Kirok
Member

Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 16
Location: Carmel

Iâ??ve been mulling over this for about a month now, and have come to conclusion that an intrastate airline COULD really work. I donâ??t want to give too much away, but I can definitely see this working if it is managed and handled appropriately, and without growing to fast to soon.

Iâ??ve started writing out a business plan and am really thinking about pursuing this. It would be a service that connects Indy to EVV, FWA, SBN, IMS, and maybe Gary. The service would be only three days a week (M, W, F), and be heavily advertisedâ?¦ something Cape Air, ATA, and USAir neglected to do in my opinion. The key is to start and stay small for a while.

The ideal workhorse would be the EMB-135, with some alterations inside the cabin to make it a unique product.

I would also borrow some of the old Ambassadair specialty trips like to Vegas, and the Caribbean.

Iâ??d love to hear what some others think of this concept.

Chris
Very Happy

Indy

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 07:02:02 pm

Indy
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Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 2316
Location: Indianapolis, IN

When are you hiring? Smile

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Kirok

Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:58:04 am

Kirok
Member

Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 16
Location: Carmel

HAHA, soon I hope/wish!! Laughing

Do you think this is a needed service? From what I've researched (and remember from my days at ATA), it seems like a good concept. But fuel alone... man, that's a killer.

Indy

Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 06:33:48 pm

Indy
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Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 2316
Location: Indianapolis, IN

I think people will embrace the EMB-135 more than they will the equipment offered by Cape Air and Chicago Express. I think we all know there is nothing wrong with that equipment and in fact people like us probably enjoy it. Unfortunately many don't think like that. So having jet service would be a smarter move.

Will it work on O/D traffic only? Or will you have to negotiate something with an airline in IND to provide feed as well?

I don't know if the FAA would allow it but what about providing the service to a municipal airport like Eagle Creek or Greenwood? Could you offer it as a charter type service and allow business travelers to avoid the hassles of big airport security, parking, lines, etc?

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Kirok

Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:58:28 pm

Kirok
Member

Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 16
Location: Carmel

That's EXACTLY what I was thinking about... going to Eagle Creek or Fishers, bypassing KIND all together. I'm not sure the FAA would approve it as this is all in the preliminary stages at this point. Getting backers would be a huge challenge, and investors are scared of airlines with jet fuel at $5.67/gal.

(But in EVV, jet fuel is coming in at $4.67/gal.)

There is a HUGE void in this state's market since ATA's demise. A lot of folks chose ATA because it was 'Indy's Hometown Airline', and if this small start-up could offset fuel costs by offering exotic trips (like Ambassadair did), it might squeeze out a decent profit.

I think the reason why Cape Air, USAir, and Chi-Express failed was that they didn't do much in as far as supportive advertising... they rolled out the red carpet at first, but didn't follow thru, especially in the EVV-IND market. The tag for this airline would be... 'Be anywhere in Indiana in less than 30 minutes'.

I'd like to tie in special state wide events... Colts games, Notre Dame, and big events like Ambassadair used to do too.

The EMB-135 would be a welcome choice for folks too. And it would have to be affordable fares year round.

Sounds impossible, doesn't it?
Laughing

Paintrain

Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 07:19:05 pm


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Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 248
Location: Lexington ky

would you add flights to citys like louisville and dayton or even nashville

Indy

Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 07:00:21 am

Indy
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Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 2316
Location: Indianapolis, IN

Ok the way I understand it is that you would not be able to fly schedule service from Eagle Creek to anywhere. You could do charter service but thats it.

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ATAIndy

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 01:17:22 pm

ATAIndy
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Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 728
Location: West Lafayette, IN

KEYE, Greenwood and Fishers would all be excellent options, but they don't have the facilities needed for scheduled service. AND I know KEYE and Fishers don't have long enough runways for E135 service. I don't know about Greenwood.

Kirok, you have a great idea going here, and it sounds like you know what you are doing, which is a must for this market. Im going to follow in Indy's footsteps and ask when are you hiring? lol

Why do my favorite airlines end up going defunct??

http://web01.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=16657
http://myaviation.net/search/search.php?uid=8779
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ataindy/

Indy

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 01:31:30 pm

Indy
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Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 2316
Location: Indianapolis, IN

You are right. It looks like the takeoff length is 5650 feet fully loaded. KEYE is only 4200 feet. Greenwood is a bit longer at 4901 feet. They might be able to use Greenwood for in state flying as the fuel loads would be very light and potentially making takeoff on a 4901 foot runway possible.

Wasn't KEYE looking to expand the runway to accommodate corporate jet service?

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ATAIndy

Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:43:42 am

ATAIndy
Member

Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 728
Location: West Lafayette, IN

Yeah, I think KEYE wanted to expand the runway awhile back but I don't really know the reason why it never happened. Funds and complaining neighbors are my guesses lol.

Why do my favorite airlines end up going defunct??

http://web01.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=16657
http://myaviation.net/search/search.php?uid=8779
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ataindy/

Kirok

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 01:32:33 am

Kirok
Member

Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 16
Location: Carmel

Hey Guys,

Sorry for not answering right away. Had a death in the family that I had to help out with.

Anyway, to answer Paintrainâ??s question: Paintrain wrote:

would you add flights to cites like Louisville and Dayton or even Nashville

Eventually yes, but the key would be to start small (just in Indiana) and stay that way until the fuel markets/economy sorts itself out. But yes, those cities would be key targets beyond a 2 year plan.

Thanks ATAIndy, its just a concept I have right now that Iâ??d like to get rolling later in the year. I donâ??t even have a business plan drafted yet, but itâ??s a looong way from hiring. I need capital first, and LOTS of it.

Thanks for checking on those runway lengths Indy. That really helps. Iâ??ve been trying to get fuel burn info on the 135â??s with no success. But thatâ??s if I can even finance something like the 135â??sâ?¦ to save cash, I may go the CHI-Express thing and go SAAB, but I hate those damned ACâ??s.

Another important element is upkeep and de-icing, which KIND would be the best position for.

Will try to check back more often!

Kirok

BTW, drove by the old ATA bldg on Wednesday, and it was totally vacated. Wow, that was a sad thing to look at.

chevyman2482

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:29:11 am


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Joined: 24 Aug 2008
Posts: 58
Location: Indianapolis

Kirok....I've been looking all over the net for the fuel consumption for the 135's but my guessing to the reason why it cant be found is embraer wants this to remain classified. Maybe I'm right and/or wrong.....but the information has to be out there somewhere.

ChevyMan

Kirok

Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 08:36:30 pm

Kirok
Member

Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 16
Location: Carmel

Thanks for digging around, Chevyman. I may just have to contact Embraer directly for specs.

If the FAA says no to sched srvc at the smaller airports, then I will have to look at SDF, FWA, SBN, and EVV to start. Landing fees will be higher and such, but I may not have a choice.

I heard on IBC on Friday that Indiana gave more than any other state for small business loans in '08... something like $2.5 mil. I really think something like this (grown and fostered from within the state) could really take off, pun intended. The key is stay small for a while.

Chris
Very Happy

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