Site Admin

Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 949
Location: Carmel, IN

Flying WN, unfortunately, this morning. Checked in online 10 hours before departure and still only got a B boarding pass. I f#%!ing hate this airline. But it was the earliest way to get to KC.

Anyway, I don't recall where we were posting all the speculation about terminal C. But after having been in A and C 3-4 times each since we started that discussion, I'm starting to believe Indy's theory about a NW relocation. Terminal C would really give NW a lot more room and would be a much nicer, more hub-like experience for pax. Currently, C7 is completely empty and C10 is used by AirTran, but the gate desk in front of C10 is vacant. CO uses C5 and C6. I could see a shift of WN and FL back over to A. But I could also envision CO remaining here in C. Most airports now have CO and NW sharing a terminal, since they're so closely integrated in their code sharing, etc. And what's more, they could construct a small lounge in the area where the arcade is now. That would be a big plus.

Here's hoping...

Site Admin

Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 2316
Location: Indianapolis, IN

I brought this up a few months back...

http://www.indairport.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=235

and then again in a private message I think when drifted over in to another topic somewhere.

Member

Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 142
Location: IND

Reason why it won't happen:

The cost of moving all of the hardware for the gates and counters, nevermind the bagrooms, the phones and offices is just too much when you have the midfield terminal coming out of the ground.


What you see now (the horrible congestion in the terminal A area just about every morning) will be the status quo for the next two years.

....unfortunately

Site Admin

Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 2316
Location: Indianapolis, IN

I am sure moving is expensive. Ticket counters will be an issue for NW and AirTran. NW would likely take over the old ATA space where AirTran (FL) has very limited ticket counter space. I'm not sure how much work it takes to change colors at the gates or what else needs to be changed. I remember looking through the airport authority meeting minutes and seeing how much AirTran is paying for C2 when they signed the lease for it a few months back. There are two gates unassigned in the C concourse. Having NW pick those up will generate an extra $200,000+ per year for the airport. The extra revenue by the time the new terminal opens would be over $400,000. This doesn't include added landing fees related to any schedule increases that NW may bring in. It is also no great secret that they are wanting to expand here. Airport officials have made it clear that times will be tough for a few years but they also made it pretty clear that they will make the most of the space they have. Leaving 2 gates empty while another airline is overcrowded in a concourse isn't make the most of the space.

Why is it that Southwest and Frontier have ticket counters all the way down by "A"? Why is it that AirTran has never added ticket counter space despite an increased schedule and despite having plenty of space right next to them?

Maybe this is part of the reason? This is coming up in the airport meeting on Friday.

"a) Consider for approval the Fourth Amendment to Agreement and Lease of Premises with Northwest Airlines. The Amendment provides for the addition of space to the Signatory Agreement previously leased under Letter of Agreement and adds an additional kiosk area. Board Paper 109-06"

Also in recent meetings Frontier signed a lease for a baggage office. I had wondered why since they have only 3 flights a day and United was handling their stuff. Well if they were to move to the "A" concourse where their ticket counters are they'd be all the way across the airport from United which would make baggage service difficult. Also in about the past month Midwest Connect signed a new lease...

"APPROVAL OF THE AGREEMENT AND LEASE OF PREMISES (SIGNATORY AGREEMENT) WITH SKYWAY AIRLINES, INC.: Upon a motion by Mr. Voorhies, seconded by Mr. Bennett and unanimously passed, approval was given to the Agreement and Lease of Premises (Signatory Agreement) with Skyway Airlines, Inc. The Agreement provides for a term of approximately five years commencing upon execution of this agreement and terminating December 31, 2010 to coincide with other signatory agreements. Annual rental will be $102,440.02."

I brought this up recently wondering what the "coincide with other signatory agreements" meant. I'm starting to think that these agreements all tie together.

Member

Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 142
Location: IND

Moving an airline's operation is VERY expensive. TRUST me on this. There is a lot of back office stuff you might not see that would go into a move like that.

It would be easier if the airport was on a system similar to Las Vegas where every airline can use every gate...but IND is not like that.

The piece you are seeing about additional kiosks for NW could be for additional kiosks in other parts of the airport to alleviate the lines. DTW has kiosks in the parking garage. MSP has NW kiosks near the light-rail stop.

I really doubt it pertains to a whole concourse move with a new terminal about two years away. A concourse move like that would cost the airport AND an airline a lot more than the benefit would show.

Site Admin

Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 2316
Location: Indianapolis, IN

Not everyone would have to move offices. Remember that Continental, Midwest Connect, Southwest and Frontier already have their stuff on that one wall between A and B/C. Only NW and FL would have to trade places. So you have to figure it it will cost more than $400k to switch the airlines around. NW will also throw in some new nonstop destinations to close the deal like they did about a year ago. Do you think the airport authority would jump on the move if NW were to offer AMS service? I think we'll know by the end of the summer. What is going to happen will involve AirTran in some way. Already heard that something is going to change with the AirTran gate assignments.

Member

Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 142
Location: IND

AMS service is a stretch. Have you ever seen a flight come through the International arrivals?

You are deplaned via stairs into a shed (the international arrival building). I think customs has trouble staffing the NW and Frontier CUN inbounds on Saturday night - I can't imagine how they would handle an AMS widebody (nevermind the lack of ability to handle potential connections).

much like a potential swap of concourses....international flights will not be seen until the midfield project is completed.

As for moving of offices...I am talking about the radio equiptment that is usually on the concourses...never mind the operations computers. It would not be an cost-effective move at this time.

Site Admin

Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 2316
Location: Indianapolis, IN

I doubt its that big of a deal. It was done a year ago. There is alot of money sitting there in C that isn't being earned. I find it hard to believe it would cost $400k to make the swap. It will take a maintenance crew all night to make the changes. Since it is a case of moving and not buying new material it shouldn't cost more than 1/10th of that $400k. If NW is going to offer more nonstop flights even if AMS isn't on the table I think they'll jump on it especially since "C" is greatly under utilized. If NW is going back to their post strike plans we'll be looking at 30 additional flights. The airport authority would certainly make the move for that kind of service increase.

Site Admin

Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 949
Location: Carmel, IN

Have to agree with wanderer on the AMS flights. Not until we have a proper intl arrivals hall. But I agree with Indy on the move - something's afoot, and it wan't a big deal to move NW into A a year ago. Shouldn't be a huge deal to get them moved over into C now. Would make the airport run a lot more smoothly and efficiently overall. And 2 years is a long time to run on a shoestring.

Site Admin

Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 2316
Location: Indianapolis, IN

I feel confident that if a move comes that it will go along with the announcement of new routes or the reinstatement of old routes that were dropped last summer.

Member

Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 142
Location: IND

NW has cemented their schedule through October....no new service.

Site Admin

Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 2316
Location: Indianapolis, IN

Not sure where you get that. Last I saw their timetables were good through August 21st. Even so what happens between August 21st and mid to late October doesn't really matter much. That is off season and very little changes during that 6 to 8 week period. The seasonal service picks up shortly after that. When NW announced additional service to LAX and new service to SFO it was schedule out 4 months. Depending on when they announced new service it would put a new route out in late Oct or early Nov when late season demand starts to pick up. So even if the schedule wasn't cemented I wouldn't expect a change until that time anyway.

Also if a schedule change would be tied to a concourse change like last year then you are looking at 90 days out anyway.

Site Admin

Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 2316
Location: Indianapolis, IN

Here is some food for thought. The last time the Airport Authority went about a month between meetings the expansion of the FX hub was announced... sort of. Remember this?

http://www.indairport.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=289

And now better than 10 days after the June 16th meeting where the NW contract was to be amended we have yet to find out the details of this contract. I can't get an answer on it and the next meeting is scheduled 5 weeks out. Just read that star report and see how the FX situation was handled. In reality it wasn't handled well with details being leaked in advance and the lease being approved and and made public before the official press release. I think this is why all the silence around the NW contract and why there is 5 weeks between meetings.

Just a hunch.

Site Admin

Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 2316
Location: Indianapolis, IN

Indy wrote:

I feel confident that if a move comes that it will go along with the announcement of new routes or the reinstatement of old routes that were dropped last summer.

I was at the airport today and I saw something that makes me think that something is up for certain. I will verify this in approximately 5 days. I won't post what the clue is just in case their are prying eyes lol.