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Joined: 17 Jun 2005
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Location: Carmel, IN

Reckless speculation is always fun. Hey - that's what message boards are for. So use this thread to speculate on what additional routes NW might add at Indy. Or talk about what routes you'd like to see, whether you think they would actually add them or not. Fire away!

This thread could be made a sticky if interest allows...

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Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 949
Location: Carmel, IN

And why not start the thread off myself. I'm pretty much talking to myself in here anyway

If you buy into the NW vs. WN thing, then it would make sense that NW might add one CRJ flight a day to JAX. Probably make it "seasonal" so they can experiment with the service without raising everyone's expectations. The NW/WN argument would also make you think they'd add MSY, but that's not as likely for two reasons: there might not be that much o&d demand on this route, and it's traditionally DL's flagship city. Only recently did WN surpass DL as the biggest carrier at MSY, and that has got to hurt DL's pride a lot. But since NW and DL are in a much closer relationship through codesharing and Skyteam, I doubt NW would rub salt in DL's wound by adding it to the list of nonstops ex-IND. Especially when a 20-minute flight to CVG and a 30 minute connection is all that's required on DL to get from here to MSY.

If you buy into the "the Mayor/CityCouncil/PowersThatBe have been influential in getting flights to targeted cities" argument - which is bunk, by the way - then the next NW cities ex-IND will be SFO or SJC (San Jose, CA). It would be really nice to have that kind of west coast service nonstop. TZ introduced it right before they imploded. I could see this possibly happening, but not because the Mayor wants it to. There's probably enough o&d demand for one flight a day on an A319. At least as much demand as IND-SEA, if not more. But the one thing to keep in mind in comparing IND-SFO to IND-SEA is that you could conceivably connect to much of the NW Asia service out of SEA. From SFO, the transpacifics are dominated by UA among the U.S. airlines. Of course, the NW vs. WN theory applies here, too, since WN serves OAK in the Bay area. NW flying to SFO or SJC would be another competitive route against WN.

That's all my speculation for now.

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Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 2316
Location: Indianapolis, IN

Routes or changes that I'd look for in the next 12 months...

+San Francisco
+San Diego
+PM LAX flight
+1 additional Orlando route and equipment upgrades

More remote possibilities
+Milwaukee
+Toronoto
+Pittsburgh

And on the down side
-St. Louis

Site Admin

Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 949
Location: Carmel, IN

I thought about Toronto as well. The Air Canada service is crap. I mean, come on - a turboprop to the largest city in Canada? What a joke. A NW CRJ would be a huge upgrade to IND-YYZ service.

I hadn't thought about MKE. Since it's already a NW focus city, that makes a lot of sense.

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Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 2316
Location: Indianapolis, IN

I wish I knew how CUN was doing and whether they were going to extend the saturday service.

Member

Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 333
Location: St. Louis, MO

I'm surprised we aren't seeing nonstops to San Francisco or San Diego.

And given the daily passenger totals, and the fact they added Austin nonstop, I'm surprised we're not seeing Manchester, Providence, or Jacksonville nonstop.

I'm also surprised they haven't gone daily on the CRJ to Sarasota.

Then again they just got all of their gate potential at this time, and admittedly, it is filled up pretty quickly, but minus the St. Louis flights, that opens up some more opportunity.

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Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 949
Location: Carmel, IN

Actually, there's lots of gate capacity left. Since IND is a focus city rather than a hub, NW doesn't need to bank flights for making connections. So there's lots of time during the day that the gates are sitting idly, which they could use for adding many additional flights.

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Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 2316
Location: Indianapolis, IN

Before they picked up the additional gates they were doing on average 10 flights per day per gate. The back half of concourse A as a zoo. I wonder if this is why they haven't expanded beyond the 50 flights since picking up the additional 3 gates. Unless they are leaving room to beef up service for the winter schedule. 6 flights per day per gate isn't bad. And it gives them room for seasonal growth without running in to serious problems like they had before taking over all of "A" at the beginning of June.

With NW wanting to expand their international service and IND being the 4th biggest NW operation in the US that will of cousre bring up the question whether NW will add the AMS route. But then I think about the travel experience and how enjoyable it WOULDN'T be to have to take the stairs in the winter from an A330-200 to a small building and then take a bus over to the main terminal.

If I were an airline and I were considering this I'd require the airport to build a jetway on the customs building and an escalator down to ground level in the building. But then again NW started CUN with this arrangement so who knows.

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Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 333
Location: St. Louis, MO

i honestly doubt we'll see international service from Indianapolis to europe.

let's just be happy with what they have now, i guess. even though i wish ata was the dominant carrier and nw was off playing with themselves with cute little flights to memphis.


btw, can a 757 even make it?

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Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 949
Location: Carmel, IN

No way European service is profitable from a non-hub. Keep in mind that NW is structuring their IND schedule to account for connections. If you wanted to fly from LAS to PHL, for example, NW will never show a flight combination connecting at IND. So service to Europe just will not fill up planes without pooling pax at a hub.

What they may do, however, is offer "direct" service from IND to Europe. This is a trick a lot of airlines play that allows them to say they offer service from one city to some sexy international destination. All they do is schedule a flight from City A with a particular flight number, and schedule that flight to connect to the Sexy City with a "scheduled aircraft change." Example: I flew from New Orleans (MSY) to Houston (IAH) last Friday evening on Continental flight #4, which is routed to London Gatwick (LGW). It's on a 737-900 from MSY to IAH, has an hour "layover" at IAH and continues on a 777 to LGW.

{as an aside, there's lots of board fodder on flyertalk about the consequences of having the first leg of a flight like this run late - what ends up happening is flight 4 from MSY-IAH arrives after flight 4 IAH-LGW leaves. No, they don't hold the flight!!}

I also had this experience on a flight from Chicago ORD to Auckland, New Zealand (AKL) a few years ago. The flight had the same number ORD-AKL all the way, but stopped in LAX for a scheduled aircraft change. The ORD-LAX leg was late, and I barely made LAX-AKL on a 747.

Anyway, I digress... What NW will probably do at some point is add one or more of these "direct", one-stop flights from IND to AMS, CDG, or LGW. That will allow NW to say that they offer service from IND to AMS, for example, but in reality it wil be a DC9 or an Airbus A319 to Detroit that continues to AMS on a widebody. But all the immigration clearing will occur in DTW, NOT at IND.

The only international destinations I see NW adding directly might be YYZ (Toronto) or MEX, as I mentioned before. Possibly some Carribean destination or another one in Mexico that is a vacation spot. And they won't care about the quality of the international arrivals terminal at IND, knowing it will be improved when the new terminal opens.

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Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 2316
Location: Indianapolis, IN

A 757 can make it. ATA flies a 757 from IND to Shannon Ireland. BTW NW offers quite a bit of international service outside of its 3 US hubs.

Is there enough demand in IND?
Is there enough cargo?
Will someone sponsor the route?
Will NW start something like this with the current IND facilities?