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Joined: 15 Jun 2005
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Location: Indianapolis, IN

The rumor is NW will start BDL-AMS service and BDL will start advertising the service on Oct 10th. Maybe we get lucky and IND is included in the expanded service. I would find it hard to believe that NW would start BDL-AMS and not IND-AMS unless the 757 with winglets does not have the legs to make the run. Your thoughts?

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Joined: 17 Jun 2005
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Location: Carmel, IN

Where did you hear the rumor? I'm surprised BDL would support a flight to AMS when there are already nonstops out of JFK, EWR, and BOS. But then again, maybe that's exactly why BDL would support it.

And what about IND-BDL-AMS? Put the 757 on one of the IND-BDL runs, and have it stop in Hartford for an hour. Of course, then the return would likely require customs clearance at BDL.

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Joined: 15 Jun 2005
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Location: Indianapolis, IN

That rumor has been posted on airliners.net and aviationpast.com . I think the one stop idea might work well at this time. It would resolve customs issues that are a problem here at IND. But NW has appeared to set up an evening bank here with a number of flights arriving between 4pm and 6pm. Makes me wonder if there was a reason or if this was just a coincidence. The number of connection opportunities soared. Are they setting up the evening bank to provide feed for an international flight?

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Hopefully IND-AMS will start once the new terminal is complete.

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Joined: 17 Jun 2005
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Location: Carmel, IN

Indy wrote:

That rumor has been posted on airliners.net and aviationpast.com . I think the one stop idea might work well at this time. It would resolve customs issues that are a problem here at IND. But NW has appeared to set up an evening bank here with a number of flights arriving between 4pm and 6pm. Makes me wonder if there was a reason or if this was just a coincidence. The number of connection opportunities soared. Are they setting up the evening bank to provide feed for an international flight?

Not to always be the "glass-is-half-empty" guy, but it might be that these flights arrive between 4 and 6 because that's a popular time for business travel. And it still allows a departure and a late return before the end of the day.

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Joined: 15 Jun 2005
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Whatever the reason that they arrive at this time it does provide opportunities here. It certainly has increased the connection possibilities.

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Joined: 17 Jun 2005
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Location: Carmel, IN

Indeed. And don't get me wrong. I'd love to see an IND-AMS flight. AAMOF, I've got a European trip I'm trying to plan before the end of the year. It would rock if I could just leave Indy around 8-9 pm and wake up in the morning in Amsterdam. Keep us posted...

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Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 142
Location: IND

I could not imagine having to deplane an AMS-IND flight into the International Arrivals Building.

I am not sure if there is the demand for a IND-AMS out of IND alone, and that means that connecting passengers would have to then be bused via shuttle back over to the main terminal - drop their bags back off AND go through security. That would be a true diservice to any passenger. Never mind the fact that if the 757 was full, they may have to walk outside in the snow/ice/rain before getting into the customs building.

I would rather connect through DTW or BOS. And remember...BDL has a new terminal already.

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Joined: 15 Jun 2005
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Location: Indianapolis, IN

I'm not too sure I'd care to use the current international arrivals setup even for a destination point. Thats not even factoring in the connection. However at all international arrivals with a connection you have to get your bags, have them inspected if needed and basically drop them back off. As long as they remain inside a secured area it wouldn't be a problem. Then NW could shuttle them to concourse A where they could catch a connection. But they'd need a covered area for the bus so passengers could avoide the snow/rain as well as a jetway for the same protection. I think its sad that the airport hasn't already invested in a jetway. It really wouldn't be too difficult to add. Neither the city nor the airport authority has a right to complain about a lack of international service when they have proven for years they are unwilling to make even the slightest upgrades to the international arrivals facility. Heck just a year ago or so they were looking to add another jetway to the current terminal. But they can't add one to the international arrivals?

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Joined: 17 Jun 2005
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Location: Carmel, IN

I think it's a little bit of cart before the horse. If we had real international service, I think the airport board would step up and improve the facilities. But unless we improve the facilities, we can't get real international service. And by now, I think they've just figured it's best to wait until the international facility is complete in the new terminal.

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Joined: 15 Jun 2005
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Location: Indianapolis, IN

There may be a small window of opportunity. We aren't exactly a metro area greater than 2 or 3 million people. Chances don't always come along for this kind of service. It was missed when DL picked Cincinnati back in the 80's. It was missed in the 90's when US closed its hub here. Now you have NW with a very large operation here. How many more chances do they need? There aren't exactly legacies lining up to establish point to point service here.

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Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 142
Location: IND

Like other airports in a "new construction" phase...you are going to see IND get to a point where they are not going to spend money to make improvements on any of the exsisting space. It just doesn't make sense.

Currently, there is not a "secure" way to get from the IAB to the main terminal. Even the employees driving back and forth have to go through a checkpoint. Visitors have to provide photo I.D.

INT'L direct flights are not going to happen in IND until at least "Late 2008"

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Joined: 15 Jun 2005
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You are probably right on that late 2008. You can live with the saturday CUN service and the small load of passengers you get with an A320. To do it on a daily basis with any kind of connections would suck to be honest. Hopefully NW doesn't decide to gut its service here prior to 2008.

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Joined: 14 Jun 2006
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Location: IND

On the brightside:

Look at all the convenient International connection options you have out of IND on NW:

IND to AMS via:
MSP
DTW
MEM
BOS
BDL (????)
PHL (??? - also in the 757 rumor. KL/NW used to have PHL-AMS service)


IND to NRT via:

DTW
MSP
LAX
SFO
SEA (seasonal)

And in reality (not that you would want to), you could do LAX-AMS.

I did a quick trip to MSP today...on the way back, we were coming in on 5L. Off to our right, an AirTran 717 was coming in on 5R. Pretty sweet view. And a GREAT view of the new terminal as we came in.

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Joined: 15 Jun 2005
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Thats the great thing about the NW network. So many options and none take you through the hell holes that are ORD, ATL, and PHL. Hopefully PHL doesn't happen. I think that would be a bad move for NW. But so many connection options. You aren't forced through only a couple of spots. I think this is what will set them apart from other carriers.

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Joined: 17 Jun 2005
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Indy wrote:

Thats the great thing about the NW network. So many options and none take you through the hell holes that are ORD, ATL, and PHL. Hopefully PHL doesn't happen. I think that would be a bad move for NW. But so many connection options. You aren't forced through only a couple of spots. I think this is what will set them apart from other carriers.

I see your point, but technically, they do force you to go through a couple of spots. MSP, DTW, MEM, IND, NRT, or AMS, to be precise . The difference is the NW is one of the few airlines in the world with true hubs (using their own metal) outside of their home country. So from the perspective of having a hub at AMS, PHL is just another spoke for the AMS hub. And there is only one single flight PHL to AMS daily, on a US 767. If the route might support additional service, like on a 757, then maybe it's a good idea.

Here's a suggestion for the NW folks reading this board. Take an early-morning west coast departure on a 757 - say LAX, SFO, SEA, LAS, or even PDX or SAN. Depart around 9:00 am. It will arrive IND around 4:15 pm. An hour to turn in Indy, leave IND at 5:15 for PHL or BDL, arriving there around 7:15 pm. Leave BDL/PHL at 8:30 pm for AMS, arriving around 10:30 a.m. there. Spend 1.5 hours at AMS and leave at 12:00 noon to go back to PHL or BDL. You'll get back there around 3:30 pm. An hour to turn, leave at 4:30, and you're back in Indy for 7:00. Leave Indy at 8:30 for the west coast, and you're there for 10:30 pm. Now you can run a redeye leaving the west coast at 11:30 to MSP, arriving 5 am and run it right back out there leaving MSP at 6 am and getting to the west coast at 8 am. That's a 2-day cycle. Put two 757s rotating on that route, and you've got daily service IND to AMS via one stop at either PHL or BDL. You'll have a total of about 9 hours 15 minutes of station time at various airports - so you're running at about 80% utilization of the aircraft, with some very high-yielding routes to boot. Choosing an underserved destination on the west coast like SAN (avg 289 daily pax demand, the largest domestic destination from IND without n/s service) would improve the pricing and loads. Choosing BDL for the east coast destination would do the same, as there is no nonstop competition IND-BDL. Keeping the same flight number all the way from SAN to AMS might also improve the marketing of the flight, because you could claim direct service from SAN to BDL and also direct service IND to AMS. (I doubt you'd want to hype "2-stop" service from SAN to AMS, but with a decent fare, you might actually attract some SAN-AMS traffic. You could also tout the only nonstop service from Connecticut to Europe.

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Joined: 15 Jun 2005
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Until the new terminal opens I think IND-BDL-AMS on a 757-200 would work. Heck you might even be able to pull that off 2x daily. It satisfies the IND-BDL o/d as well as providing the two n/s BDL-AMS and two 1 stop IND-AMS. It also opens up business class seats between IND and BDL. I think they would do 1x daily just because of a lack of equipment. PHL? I honestly don't see it happening. NW can't compete with US in PHL. Besides who would want to use PHL? Delays and ugly. As far as SAN goes I think that would be the longest route possible to go for them to go to Europe. They are better off going to SEA and then over the top.

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Joined: 17 Jun 2005
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Location: Carmel, IN

I think you might have misunderstood. I'm suggesting SAN-IND-BDL-AMS-BDL-IND-SAN-MSP-SAN as a 2-day run for one 757. Using two 757s in rotation would allow this to be done daily.

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Joined: 15 Jun 2005
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Location: Indianapolis, IN

Oh... yes I did misunderstand. That makes much more sense.

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Joined: 15 Jun 2005
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Location: Indianapolis, IN

Well they did it. NW announced BDL-AMS. Just a strange combination. Coming in to today the only destinations served by NW from BDS was DTW, MSP and IND. They didn't even serve MEM. Go figure.