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stlgph

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 05:38:44 pm


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Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 333
Location: St. Louis, MO

You've got Charlotte, Detroit, Columbus, Cleveland, Grand Rapids flying into La Guardia Airport, but why didn't American Airlines ever begin American Eagle service into La Guardia?

With over 1,000 daily passengers, I'd think there'd still be room for two or three ER3 flights into La Guardia. Or does American just not have that much of a presence in Indianapolis?

Indy

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 05:40:41 pm

Indy
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Location: Indianapolis, IN

There really isn't much service with AA. Its heavy to ORD & DFW and a little to MIA. That is pretty much it.

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Boofer

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 07:56:04 pm

Boofer
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Location: Carmel, IN

...and don't forget about the little number over to STL.

But I agree. AA has taken the same approach to IND as CO has...hubs only. CO only does EWR, CLE, and IAH. Both leave the nonhub point-to-point action for the other guys out of IND. One other thing - LGA fares are typically the lowest of the three major NYC airports. Until recently, we had NW, US, and TZ on that route, and profits probably aren't all that easy to come by, even running RJs in and out.

Can I get a peanut crumb with that thimble of Coke?

Indy

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 09:41:58 pm

Indy
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Ah.. I forgot about STL. Most of the majors at IND fly hub only. AA, DL, CO, HP. Well we can scratch HP from the list since they are US now.

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stlgph

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 01:07:32 am


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Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 333
Location: St. Louis, MO

Well, yeah, but even out of Cleveland, Eagle competes nonstop against Continental/Continental Express and AirTran out of Akron/Canton and AA lists $148.

In Detroit, they head up against Northwest and offer nonstop for $120.

In Columbus, I think they have Columbus to La Guardia nonstop by themselves and offer $240 ish.

Grand Rapids wins at over $300.


Northwest runs $158 out of Indianapolis nonstop at the moment.



In each of the cities, American flies to New York La Guardia in addition to flying to its operations at DFW, ORD, MIA, and STL.

Indianapolis wouldn't be too far off from any of these other cities. And importantly, AA has the presence in the New York area that could back up its service.

Boofer

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 09:54:16 am

Boofer
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But keep in mind that LGA is strictly an O&D airport. Yes, it's possible to connect there. But of the 3 NYC airports, LGA is the one that is primarily just for pax going to and from NYC. Much like DCA is to the Washington area. LGA isn't a true hub for anyone, whereas JFK and EWR are. So flying into LGA is strictly for the XXX city to New York market. In IND, as I pointed out, that (until recently) was already served by NW, US, and TZ. It's still served by US and NW with 10 flights per day between them. 8 on roughly 50-pax RJ's, plus 2 NW flights on D9S (100 pax each). So 600 seats between IND and LGA. At 1,122 average pax per day between IND and all three NYC airports, that suggests to me that the demand to LGA is pretty well satisfied by US and NW. AA would have to cut fares dramatically to muscle in on that business.

To contrast GRR-LGA, AA offers the only nonstop service using two ERJ-135's, so there's about 80 seats on that route with no other nonstop competition.

Can I get a peanut crumb with that thimble of Coke?

stlgph

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 04:31:25 am


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Location: St. Louis, MO

Aren't you still able to connect to a great deal of destinations to New England area out of La Guardia on US Airways?

And I still thought that the 1,022 passengers per day was one way between each city. 1,022 passengers there each day, and 1,022 coming back.

Boofer

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 09:22:37 am

Boofer
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Yes, you can still make some connections on US. But if you're buying a connecting fare, their system usually routes you through PHL, CLT, or sometimes PIT. Occasionally it will route you through DCA or LGA, but about 85% of US pax going to DCA or LGA are o&d, not connections.

And yes, 1,022 is average one way. So 2,044 arriving and departing IND to/from NYC each day. But if you do the math that way, then the US/NW combo is 1200 seats, instead of 600. So it's the same either way you figure it.

Can I get a peanut crumb with that thimble of Coke?

stlgph

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 05:42:05 pm


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Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 333
Location: St. Louis, MO

how is it the same? US Airways and Northwest would be serving half of the market with nonstops which should mean ample room for a couple of measly barbie jets.

Boofer

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 08:32:38 am

Boofer
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I guess you're right. US and NW together have ~600 seats departing to LGA and ~600 seats arriving from LGA daily. That's 1200 seats nonstop to LGA out of a market of 2,044 seats to ALL THREE NYC airports. CO runs 314 seats to EWR in each direction, for a total of 628 seats for EWR. DL runs about 100 nonstop seats daily to JFK. So the total nonstop seats between IND and LGA+EWR+JFK is over 1600. That leaves about 430 pax roundtrip between IND and NYC who are not flying nonstop, or about 215 each way. If you assume that's split in the same ratio among the three airports as the current nonstop traffic is, then there is demand for about 130 more nonstop seats to LGA - enough for 2+ RJ's. But still, the fares IND-LGA are pretty cheap, so maybe AA just figures there are bigger fish to fry?

Can I get a peanut crumb with that thimble of Coke?

stlgph

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 06:44:43 pm


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Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 333
Location: St. Louis, MO

I bet anymore AA isn't too worried about the market, but I wonder when AA Eagle began their service from Grand Rapids, Cleveland, etc. into New York La Guardia. If it was a few years ago, then before ATA entered the market to New York, it would have been a perfect fit considering AA's large presence there.

But you are right, the fares have remained low to New York even without the ATA presence. I also believe AA is maxed out on their potential slots at the moment anyway, so I doubt they'd be worried about tossing them away to Indianapolis, even if some flights did recently become available to them because of cut backs to Kansas City and Houston.

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