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Indy

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 07:29:23 am

Indy
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Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 2316
Location: Indianapolis, IN

Yes I said it. Frontier Airlines should move their Denver hub. If they don't move they are as good as dead. They continue to lose money and continue to have to sell assets just to stay afloat. I don't see them having a chance in Denver. That market is severely over served. It cannot support a United Airlines hub, a Frontier Hub and a Southwest hub/focus city.

They are going up against two forces they cannot compete with. One is Southwest with likely the deepest pockets in the industry. The other is United Airlines which is large enough that the government won't let them fail. They can operate pretty careless if they want knowing that Uncle Sam will be there in the end to help them out of they need it. But not Frontier.

Frontier is the one airline that the industry could lose and the federal government wouldn't lift a finger for. They are the odd man out in Denver. Both WN and UA can kill F9 in pricing because one has the backing of its own bank account and the other will certainly have the backing of the U.S. taxpayers.

Frontier needs to take advantage of the weak economy and declining air traffic numbers by seeking funds from municipalities in exchange for relocation. They could obtain any number of tax incentives, terminal lease incentives, and maybe even hefty loans. You have two communities that have basically closed off part of their airports (PIT and STL). Of the two I would say PIT would be the most eager to offer assistance to a new hub airlines and would have the least competition. STL really isn't a whole lot better off than DEN with the AA and WN focus operation.

Stay in DEN and your days are numbered.

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rw175

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:06:42 am


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Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 106
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And then what do they do after they spend the insane amount of money it would take to move to PIT and Southwest decides to dramatically expand in PIT? Same goes for STL. They would just collapse. They are probably going to collapse anyway, but I don't think moving the hub will help in any way.

Fly RW

Indy

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 06:09:21 pm

Indy
Site Admin

Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 2316
Location: Indianapolis, IN

In my opinion death is certain where they are. Moving at least gives them a shot.

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rw175

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:22:45 am


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Posts: 106
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I think the cost of moving would kill them even more quickly.

Fly RW

Boofer

Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 04:41:04 pm

Boofer
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Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 949
Location: Carmel, IN

I think in this environment, "merge or die" is the appropriate refrain. Whether it's as good an asset as it once was, their location in DEN is still one of their best assets. If they can survive long enough for another player to scratch up the jack to buy F9, then FL or B6 are potential bidders. In fact, just for fun, wouldn't it be interesting if there were a three way merger between B6, F9, and FL? Hubs at JFK, LBB, MCO, ATL, and DEN?

Can I get a peanut crumb with that thimble of Coke?

Indy

Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 06:29:31 pm

Indy
Site Admin

Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 2316
Location: Indianapolis, IN

People can forget DEN. It isn't an asset to them anymore. It is a massive liability. That market is so severely over served since WN entered the picture and basically shoved them out of the way. That market cannot support 3 hubs/focus cities. All the merging in the world is going to fix that. They need to either hope that WN cuts back service and/or leaves or they need to leave themselves. They may die if they leave because of the cost of moving but they absolutely will die if they stay. The best they can do is hope that in these tough economic times that another municipality in hopes of stimulating their economy provides F9 with the relocation funds.

If someone else covers the moving cost is there any valid reason why they cannot or should not move?

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Boofer

Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:53:16 pm

Boofer
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Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 949
Location: Carmel, IN

They can't move. They are stuck. Where would they go anyway?

Can I get a peanut crumb with that thimble of Coke?

chevyman2482

Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 03:17:01 pm


Member

Joined: 24 Aug 2008
Posts: 58
Location: Indianapolis

Id say Str8 down the toilet without a courtesy flush if they don't merge soon rather than later. I hope they do something soon cuz I'd hate to see one of my favorite airlines being flushed out.

ChevyMan

Fit2Fly

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 09:50:02 am


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Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 157
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Boofer wrote:

They can't move. They are stuck. Where would they go anyway?

Possibly MCI. They've got plenty of room out there.

Kangerlussuaq

Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 01:36:39 am


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Joined: 22 Jun 2009
Posts: 8
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Just a hypothetical question that I think about when I get fed lots of Colorado propaganda when I'm only going to Denver to make a connection.

I know they have a frequent flyer alliance, but how about a Frontier/AirTran merger? Their networks would complement each other with hubs in ATL and DEN.

That being said, I can't think of any good mergers for the flying public, and th last time a Frontier merged was with People Express, and we all know how that went. There are some glaring issues with those two becoming one, but just interested to see if anybody else had anything to add.

Indy

Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 08:47:39 am

Indy
Site Admin

Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 2316
Location: Indianapolis, IN

I wonder if airline mergers are really any good for anyone. They certainly aren't good for the traveling public. I doubt they are good for the airline employees. And I'm not so sure it really helps the merged airline.

Food4Geeks.com - Even Geeks Like To Eat.

Indy

Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 04:42:35 pm

Indy
Site Admin

Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 2316
Location: Indianapolis, IN

The idea I had is catching on a bit on another site. If you visit airliners you certainly know this user...


I know a number of people, Frontier supporters whom I respect, who were actively hoping Frontier to move from DEN, urging them to do so.

I prefer that they stood their ground, but I understood why people were advocating the move. At the very least, we wouldn't be in the situation whereby Southwest feels they must remove Frontier.

mariner


That is part of reply 306 in the following thread...

http://www.airliners.net/aviat...al_aviation/read.main/4461552/

If Republic wins the bid for Frontier this is what I expect will happen in the next couple of years barring some kind of huge change in DEN with UA or WN.

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