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Indy

Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 05:56:24 pm

Indy
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Location: Indianapolis, IN

If the bankruptcy court accepts the deal Republic will become the owner of Frontier Airlines.

http://www.airliners.net/aviat...al_aviation/read.main/4457754/

http://newsticker.welt.de/?module=smarthouse&id=905911

What will this mean for IND if anything? Will Republic leave things as is or will they move some of the Frontier operations to Indianapolis in order to escape the heavy competition with United Airlines and Southwest Airlines? Would it be considered financially wise for Frontier to continue to operate in what is a very over served Denver market? With Republic's resources and their Indianapolis base would it make a move here more reasonable than just a blind pack up and move had this deal not happened?

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Fit2Fly

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 09:36:31 am


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I would imagine that Republic would shift at least some of Frontier's operations here in order to intermix regional and mainline flights. Especially since the number of destinations is limited in the wake of Air Tran and NW/DL's reduction in IND.

Indy

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:59:44 pm

Indy
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Location: Indianapolis, IN

What do you think of this quote in the latest Indy Star report?


Asked whether Frontier offices and flights could be moved to Indianapolis, Republic officials declined to discuss the economic impact of the acquisition. Analysts doubted Frontier's headquarters would be uprooted.

"We're not going to delve into a lot of strategy until it's apparent we're the winning bidder," Bedford said.


Source: http://www.indystar.com/articl...public+to+buy+Midwest+Airlines

If they aren't going to change things the answer is simply "no." That looks like an answer designed to minimize the chance of a resistance movement coming to life prior to the auction. Could be nothing but if I were in Denver I wouldn't be very comfortable with that answer.

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Kangerlussuaq

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:39:45 am


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I agree, Indy. "Delving into strategy," in my opinion, is extremely abstract and can be taken many different ways. I too, would be on edge if I were in Denver. Nevertheless, I wouldn't read too much into it yet. I think Republic is doing the right thing by not making any statements one way or the other until approval, for the sake of customer, employee, and investor confidence (although it isn't probaly very high as it is). If for some reason the deal doesn't go through...

If F9 moves some opertions here, I think they will have to change "Animal Tails" to more closely correspond wildlife/insects in central Indiana, such as Moses the Mosquito and Oscar Opossom.

Indy

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:49:06 am

Indy
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Location: Indianapolis, IN

Kangerlussuaq wrote:


If F9 moves some opertions here, I think they will have to change "Animal Tails" to more closely correspond wildlife/insects in central Indiana, such as Moses the Mosquito and Oscar Opossom.


That's classic Smile

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rw175

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:40:14 pm


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Republic is not going to move any of Frontier's operation here. Indianapolis obviously cannot support a hub as has been shown repeatedly (USAir, ATA), and is now slowly losing it's focus city status (DL/NW). Why would Frontier be any different? Frontier has been greatly improving their financial condition in DEN over the last several months, and has been posting operating profits every month. It has already been announced that a codeshare will be put in place between Frontier and Midwest. If anything, Republic will want to keep Frontier on its recent path to success and possibly spin it off in an IPO for a profit later down the road.

Fly RW

Indy

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:46:27 pm

Indy
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The conditions in Denver are terrible because of the UA hub and what you could call a WN hub (over 100 daily flights).

There are a number of reasons the US hub didn't work here. One being they had hubs everywhere and you just cannot operate like that. Another is space. They didn't have it. They weren't going to get it. They just couldn't grow beyond the 147 flights a day they had here.

You can't call what ATA had here a hub. They pulled it before it ever got going because they had this idea they could survive in MDW because their new friend Southwest was going to help them. It was as obvious as the nose on my face that was going to fail and fail it did.

There has never been a real attempt at a hub here. We until recently never had the facilities. It was clear the airport authority wasn't going to bend over backwards to keep here and they weren't going to bend over backwards to get Delta here when they ultimately chose Cincinnati. We now have the facilities and space to support a hub for the first time. It has to be an honest attempt. Not this half ass attempt by ATA that was over before it ever started. That wasn't an attempt. US Air was the closest thing to an attempt and with just the D concourse it had no chance.

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rw175

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:48:15 pm


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Yes, but no airline is going to build a new hub based solely on connection traffic. You have to have a major base of O&D to pull from, and Indy just doesn't have it.

Fly RW

Indy

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:55:02 pm

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Building up a hub in HUF would be building based solely on connection traffic. Building here would not be the case. But lets assume that isn't exactly what you meant.

Is it stopping AirTran from trying to build a hub in MKE which is a dead market? Did it stop Southwest from going to Denver which was heavily served with two hubs? If a 3rd hub can work in Denver and a second can work in Milwaukee then you can bet a first can work in Indianapolis which is currently under served. Unlike Denver and Milwaukee which are currently very over served.

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Indy

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:00:20 am

Indy
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IND isn't going to supposed a 500 flight a day legacy hub. Just like PIT couldn't. Just like CVG can't and eventually you'll see just like CLT can't. You have to do better than 30% O&D. US is just in a bit of a bind. They don't have a good hub. They have PHL with has the market but is a facilities nightmare. They have CLT which is a great facility but a market too small to sustain the current traffic level.

IND is best suited for an LCC hub. Those are smaller operations that focus heavily on O&D with flights to top leisure and business destinations and some feed from smaller destinations that by themselves wouldn't work. Carriers like Southwest say they aren't hubs. Its debatable. But that kind of operation works best in this market. It is what the market size supports and it is what the area incomes support.

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Paintrain

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:10:10 am


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how many passengers from IND are needed to sustain a flight to a destionation?

Indy

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 01:45:02 pm

Indy
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That depends. How big is the jet? What kind of fares are you charging? How much cargo are you hauling? How many passengers are O&D and how many are feed?

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Indy

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 02:10:51 pm

Indy
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Location: Indianapolis, IN

If you ever wonder about the intelligence of some planners you really have to look no further than MKE. Here is the latest Airliners.net discussion.

http://www.airliners.net/aviat...al_aviation/read.main/4467978/

It amazes me that this is even being discussed. That AirTran would try and force a situation that clearly won't work. There is no excess passenger base to serve. Where are these mythical passengers going to come from that are going to fill these jets? According to this source...

http://recenter.tamu.edu/data/popm/pm5080.htm

The Milwaukee-Waukesha MSA population is just over 1.5 million. That is barely big enough to support the YX hub. It is certainly not enough to support a 2nd one. For nearly the last 40 years that market has been slow to no growth.

One can only imagine that FL had hoped that YX was going to go under. Now that it is obviously going nowhere they must rethink their strategy. I sense a bit of ego in play. They were beaten by WN in MDW. They were outsmarted in the original bid for YX. They want to try and prove they can win something. But they are risking looking like the last person to leave a party. It is quite pathetic actually.

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rw175

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 02:31:43 pm


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Unless they are somehow involved with the RAH purchase of YX. Who knows what's going on behind the scenes?

Fly RW

Indy

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 04:08:36 pm

Indy
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Unless RAH plans to purchase FL as well. That I would like to see.

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Indy

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 02:15:14 pm

Indy
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Location: Indianapolis, IN

I see on airliners.net that WN is going to make a bid for F9. I see people there celebrating this like its good news for F9 and its employees. I think these people are asleep at the wheel or just don't pay very close attention to aviation news. Does anyone remember TZ? This is the exact same nonsense WN pulled with TZ and we all know how that one ended. WN wanted TZ's gates in MDW and they destroyed the company to make sure there wouldn't be any competition. The same will happen with DEN. It might look good for a few months to a year but make no mistake. If WN gets F9 that company is history. They will destroy the company and they will end up with F9's gates in DEN. Then it is just between them and UA and that is no big deal for them.

If you love F9 you really don't want WN having their fingers in on this.

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ATAIndy

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 10:19:40 am

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I agree with you Indy. Southwest is not in this to preserve F9 and rescue it from the bowels of financial difficulty. WN will simply put another great airline to sleep and use its gates as a living memory.

Why do my favorite airlines end up going defunct??

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Paintrain

Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 08:16:41 pm


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would people be willing to fly Ind sea, sfo, San on an E 190 or are those routes just to farforan E190

Indy

Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 09:50:00 pm

Indy
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Location: Indianapolis, IN

I'd fly IND-SAN if the e190 has the legs. Those I've flown on a Compass jet before from Florida and it was extremely comfortable. It is ever bit as good as any other domestic jet.

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Paintrain

Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 09:56:03 pm


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Frontier flies MKE-SEA on one

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